ILS Approach Guide/Tutorial

pilotwannabe · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:20 pm

It might be easier for you to tell us what you are doing and then we can tell you what your doing wrong Wink

99jolegg · Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:28 pm

Chris,

A common problem people have, is that they get everything right, apart from making sure they engage the APP within 10-15nm of the runway threshold. If you engage it too far before that, then it won't have a clue what its doing or where its going - irrespective of whether you have got absolutely everything right, i.e. speed, height etc. Like I say, its the most common problem when people say they've followed all of the steps - could be wrong though.

Wink

PIC1stOfficer · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:51 pm

One problem I have is using the gps to get to the airport when the runway does not line up with the gps line.
Or when atc vectors you off the gps. Then lining up with the runway is often an ordeal.
Also I'm wondering you say 2800 feet is roughly the intercept. But approach plates show something different for each airport. Is 2800 still a good rule of thumb?

99jolegg · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:49 pm

Yes, you should always (in the real world) abide by the approach plate interception altitude for the precision approaches. The reason I suggested 2800ft is because it is indeed a good rule of thumb, plus, a lot of simmers don't fancy the idea of getting approach charts for their flights. The interception altitude on approach plates will be slightly similar every time, with a few exceptions.

One problem I have is using the gps to get to the airport when the runway does not line up with the gps line.
Or when atc vectors you off the gps. Then lining up with the runway is often an ordeal.

I'm not too sure what you mean. If you have the Vectors to Final initiated on the GPS, then you can select GPS/NAV to GPS, engage NAV on the AP and the aircraft will fly the vectors but won't descend. The runway should be aligned with the vectors to final line. ATC will often vector you off course from the GPS but with the same result. Note, the vectors to final given to ATC are not vectors to align you with the runway. They are vectors to ensure that you cross the beam of the localiser where the PIC will manoeuvre the aircraft on to the glideslope.

I hope that helps Wink

PIC1stOfficer · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:27 pm

[quote="99jolegg]

I'm not too sure what you mean. If you have the Vectors to Final initiated on the GPS, then you can select GPS/NAV to GPS, engage NAV on the AP and the aircraft will fly the vectors but won't descend. The runway should be aligned with the vectors to final line. ATC will often vector you off course from the GPS but with the same result. Note, the vectors to final given to ATC are not vectors to align you with the runway. They are vectors to ensure that you cross the beam of the localiser where the PIC will manoeuvre the aircraft on to the glideslope.

I hope that helps Wink

[/quote]

What I meant was I'm all happy because my gps is lined up with the runway sometimes, only to have atc vector me off the simple course.
Also here is a place you can get free approach plates:
http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl

99jolegg · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:55 pm

Its what ATC does for a living in the sim: annoys you. You'll have to choose to use one or the other, not both at the same time.

There are quite a few approach plate sites around, I hadn't seen that one before, thanks.

PIC1stOfficer · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:20 pm

Is there anyway you know to force the gps to line up with a runway?

Like if I'm going to AP X, the runways are lined up East/West, but the gps is only lined up with the middle of the AP North/South.

99jolegg · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:24 pm

Yes, you initiate Vectors to Final which is a part of the GPS section of the initial post in this thread:

5) Now click "PROC" at the bottom of the GPS.

6) Click "ENT" when the cursor is over "Select Approach". Choose the approach you would like by moving the cursor by clicking the left or right arrow on the outer knob. For example, ILS 29L.

7) Click "ENT" and pick the waypoint from wich you would like the approach to your selected runway to start from. If you would like it to start in a straight line from the runway about 15nm's out, select Vectors (Recommended).

8) Click "ENT". Click on the right outer arrow so cursor is on "Activate" and click "ENT".

9) Your flight plan will then appear. Click "PROC" twice and the approach will be set up.

It should be what you need.

PIC1stOfficer · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:20 pm

Thank you I will definitely work on that.

As far as the approach plates go, they do put you right on, but, they are hard to fly as printed in msfs.
Like going into KSEA you go from 5000' to landing in 18 miles. This is not enough time to get completely off the gps on approach in a 777 and lined up for me. Though it works in a slower aircraft fine.

This last time my right wing in the 777 was still down and touched the runway from the last auto correction, and ...crash burn.
So rule of thumb might works better in this case for me, or what's known as flying by the seat of your pants. Laughing

Guest · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:08 pm

cheers mate this post helped heaps

PIC1stOfficer · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:11 am

WOW thank you for the GPS tutor. I followed it word for word and it worked smooth and clean landing in KDEN at night. Group Wave

99jolegg · Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:20 am

nicola · Trainee Joined: Mar 10, 2005 Posts: 5

99jolegg · Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:16 pm

Guest · Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:03 pm

I don't understand the GPS Approach.

Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) Approach Guide
1) Open up the GPS.

2) Click the button on the right hand side at the top with "--->" on.

There is no "--->" button

3) Click the right arrow on the inner knob on the bottom right hand side of the GPS once and enter the 4 digit ICAO code for the airport. For example, London Heathrow = EGLL.

4) Click "ENT" on the right hand side and then use the right arrow on the outer knob until the cursor reaches "Activate" and then click "ENT" again.

5) Now click "PROC" at the bottom of the GPS.

There is no "PROC" button

6) Click "ENT" when the cursor is over "Select Approach". Choose the approach you would like by moving the cursor by clicking the left or right arrow on the outer knob. For example, ILS 29L.

7) Click "ENT" and pick the waypoint from wich you would like the approach to your selected runway to start from. If you would like it to start in a straight line from the runway about 15nm's out, select Vectors (Recommended).

Cool

Click "ENT". Click on the right outer arrow so cursor is on "Activate" and click "ENT". And no "Activate"

9) Your flight plan will then appear. Click "PROC" twice and the approach will be set up.

Is there some sort of GPS download that I need?

99jolegg · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:51 am

Are you using FS2000, FS2002, FS2004 or FS2006?

Guest · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:44 pm

Flying a Lear in FS2002

99jolegg · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:05 pm

I wrote the GPS guide for the GPS in FS2004. I never owned FS2002 so don't know how the GPS works in it - that will probably be the reason why the guide isn't 'compatible' - sorry.

Wink

Guest · Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:47 pm

yes probably right. cheers anyway

okostov · Guest

ok guys im trying to do this maybe 2 days and no effect.flying kdtw>eddf with gps..30 nm from eddf im 9000 ft,280kn. atc says runway 7l..i put freq and heading...nav 1 as well....im waiting for m-code..
which buttons need to stay on and whish off??can someone lead me with pictires or maybe video?
when i press gps to nav...i still have manny buttons on.which one need to be turned off??and do i need to listen atc from other areas??or just wait for frankfurt eddf atc??do i need to activate gps approach as well or just ils ap approach??maybe im stupid but dont understand really.please help.

okostov · Guest

[quote="okostov"]ok guys im trying to do this maybe 2 days and no effect.flying kdtw>eddf with gps..30 nm from eddf im 9000 ft,280kn. atc says runway 7l..i put freq and heading...nav 1 as well....im waiting for m-code..
which buttons need to stay on and whish off??can someone lead me with pictires or maybe video?
when i press gps to nav...i still have manny buttons on.which one need to be turned off??and do i need to listen atc from other areas??or just wait for frankfurt eddf atc??do i need to activate gps approach as well or just ils ap approach??maybe im stupid but dont understand really.please help..
does ils ap landing works only with ifr fligh plan or gps as well??

b_kennedy · Trainee Joined: Oct 03, 2006 Posts: 25 Location: UK

just wanted to ask a quick question!!

On the Auto-pilot ILS approach it says 'press number 8' for autopilot ILS.

'number 12' for manual. What does it mean. just press number 8?
There is obviously no 12. Sorry to be thick but i'm really new to this Embarassed