Instrument Checkride

Guest · Guest

Every time that I enter the hold over the SEA VOR on the instrument checkride I fail the checkride. I am holding 3000' and rolling out right on 320 for the outbound leg of the hold. As soon as I roll out on 320 I bust.

Chris330 · Guest

No shit brother. Same thing happened to me. Eventually I just setup my own flight in bad weather and flew the exact same course as the checkride. I passed myself. Also had problems with the ATC too not recognising changes in ircraft heading. When I bought this game I thought I was buying real quality. In fact I was buying a game that has not been finished (or tested) Cool

Guest · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:07 am Post subject:

No shit is right!! Damn this crap. It's not like me to give up but I said to hell with it and moved on to the commercial ticket (I'm pissed with that too but for other reasons). I have about 55 hours PIC time in real aircraft from 150's to 172 to glider, tomahawk etc.. Don't tell me I'm not doing everything right!! I hate that bitch examiner!!

I passed the student and got a private cert. not the cutesy cutting of the shirt tails as promised, private checkride was easy and now, no way in hell to pass the instrument. Microsoft has pissed me off yet again!

Fullflaps · Trainee Joined: Oct 08, 2003 Posts: 2

For FS 2004

When the Dragon Lady sez' turn left to 160^ (and climb to 3000') and fly direct to SEA-VOR she means "direct", so intercept the R-160.

I have read directions from FS2002 that say cross at 140^ L to 110^ or 160^ and do a parallel entry, none worked for me in FS 2004. Even MS own instructions say "Cross SEA VOR on any heading". Tried that!

Try a "teardrop" entry IE: Cross SEA-VOR on 160^ at 3000', Standard left turn to 110^ (140-30=110). Stay on 110^ for 1 minute, Setting NAV1 to 320^.
Make a standard right turn to intercept the R-320 inbound course. Cross SEA-VOR fix and proceed with the holding pattern.

Hopefully this will work for you too and end the dreded "you did not enter the holding pattern correctly" and the "sorry...." in the middle of your turn

Fullflaps

Guest · Guest

I'm having similar issues; however, I can't get to the hold. As I go missed during the first section and cross PARKK, I'm told that the check ride is over.

The lady indicates that I failed to track the 338 course inbound AND that I fail to track 339 during the missed. However I KNOW that I am performing these tasks correctly.

Any thoughts? I am tempted to just move on (as I KNOW I understand the lesson - I am truly Instrument rated), but my meticulous nature does NOT permit me to give up. I do need help though!

BTW - this is a terrific site!

Randalism · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:49 pm Post subject:

Fullflaps,
When reviewing the text for the checkride, I found the initial runway number to be wrong (16R and not 34R). Once I found this out by flying the actual VOR approach, I flew fine up to the "Hold on 140 SEA VOR" portion. I try direct entry, intercept 140 and make standard right turn when crossing over the SEA VOR.

Could there be a flaw in the actual fix heading (is it really 320 and not 140)?

Once I finish with the teardrop entry, will I be executing a "standard" holding pattern (right turns) or is this information also backwards?

I have read (in German and Spanish) about pilots who passed this checkride by performing the teardrop entry you suggest (although the Google translator called one of them a "Parallel Entry"). They also reported that they get directed to Boeing Field before entering the first turn of the actual holding pattern.

I think I am more confused now than I was when I started looking into this...

_________________
"A landing is merely a controlled crash."
- Unknown

Guest · Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:36 am Post subject:

Hi everyone,
passed the IR checkride few days back and it was handful...there are certain things that you MUST do to make the lady happy.

most people have problems with the HOLD. Another potential area is the procedure turn after the VOR hold.

I know someone who has successfully entered the hold with a tear drop entry...however it never worked for me...Parallel entry works for me. its 100% predictable if u do it right...just fly standard turns

after passing PARKK, as per the lady's instructions, u start left turn....the moment u reach a heading of 160, she will ask you to head directly to SEA VOR...I turn the OBS1 to centre the needle and fly directly to SEA VOR...(generally the heading here around 145)

PLEASE NOTE: The instructions are to HOLD on the 140 radial (this means its a heading of 320 inbound, dont get confused here)

Further at 0.4 DME (overhead SEA VOR) turn left to a heading of 140 to enter parallel entry in the hold...fly for a min & turn right to intercept the 320 inbound (140 radial) and complete the VOR hold with standard turns...

After the hold she will direct you to NOLLA for procedure turn -ILS...

Guest · Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:49 am Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:31 am Post subject:

The flight analysis looks like this...

rayz · Guest

this is driving me nuts! I have tried to do this for 4 hours! I need to know exactly what to do. This what I have been doing. Fly to SEA VOR(heading of 339 degrees). Follow alt changes till she says to go into HOLD. I stay on course 339 and climb to 2100 feet. I folow this couse and she never tells me to turn. After awhile past PARKK, she says I failed. I tried climbing to 3000 feet after told to HOLD and still I get failed. If I try to turn at PARKK without her saying to do so, it says to return to 338 course heading! From what I have read from GUEST, after I reach PARKK, she SHOULD say to turn LEFT and as soon as you do to about 160 degrees, she SHOULD say to go directly to SEA VOR, which turns out to be 145 degrees. He also says he changes OBS to point directly at SEA VOR(145 ?). Then after .4 DME to SEA VOR, I should turn LEFT to 140 degrees, fly for a minute and turn RIGHT to intercept 320 radial. And to then make procedure turns(45 degee turns?) to keep HOLD pattern. Now what am I doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated.

Rayz Shocked

Guest · Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:58 am Post subject:

Hi Rayz,
Does she fail you by saying that 'you have not tracked the 338 course' ?

Here are a few clarification:

The first evaluation is at about 5 to 5.5 NM after you pass SEA VOR..here she will ask you to turn left ONLY if you pass this evaluation. Initially I had a problem here too, you MUST track the 338 course after you pass SEA VOR...one thing I have noticed is that you must NOT get any gold messages (telling you that you are off course, etc) to successfully clear this checkride....

to track the 338 course, here is what I do.

Fly the VOR approach as published with OBS1 to 339. (you dont have a problem here)...pass the SEA VOR at little over 840 feet. The moment you pass SEA VOR, she will ask you to do the missed approach.
Here, I turn the OBS1 to 338 and climb to 2100 and maintain 338 heading...use shift + Z (3 times) when u start the chkride to dispaly the digital read out...you have to track the course with max 2 degree changes...and make sure you are not too off to get you a gold message....the best way is to track the SEA VOR with min deflection on the needle (make very small changes when u are close to the VOR)
at around 5-5.2 NM, she will do the first evaluation. If you pass, she will ask you to turn left.
make sure you pass PARKK (OM will blink) and then start left turn (set OBS1 to 160)
Rest of the things mentioned by you are all correct except:
when u enter HOLD with a heading on 140 and flying for 1 min you have to turn LEFT (and not right) to Intercept 320 (140 radial)..and in the HOLD you fly standard 2 min turns...

the procedure turn comes later after you complete the VOR hold successfully...

good luck,
Extra

rayz · Guest

Thank you for replying. I actually using the Visual Flight Guides so I am tracking exactly on the 339 course. I drop down to the lower altitudes pretty fast and then pull up to level off at the 3000 and 1600 feet levels. as soon as I get to SEA VOR, I get a command to lower to 840 feet, but I immediatly get a command to pull up and go into HOLD pattern. So I am at 1600 feet and I pull up to 2100 feet from there. I know it might be a pain, but that flight analysis of yours would be much better with the altitude track. I am seriuosly thinking of skipping this checkride, but its kicking my ass and I hate that! What if my speed drops below 100 as I climb? Can you let me know if you ever exceed any of the limits and not receive a gold message? Thanks again for your time.

rayz

alchemist81 · Guest

After having successfully completed the instrument checkride and having poured over the code for this ride, I have a lot of information to share with those of you who are trying to pass this lesson. I believe the knowledge and experience I have acquired may relieve you of a lot of frustrations.

Here is the most important piece of information. We are expected to use a teardrop approach to enter the holding pattern; however, if you do it the way you've been taught in previous lessons, you will fail. The reason for this is you are timed beginning with your passage over the VOR. What resets the timer is the appearance of the off flag on the VOR. So, if you don't fly overtop the VOR, the off flag will not appear and the timer will not be reset. The previous reset point is when you passed over PARKS. That's a lot of time. The limit is 300 (but I' not sure what the units are. These 300 units seem to correspond to 1 minute.). Within this limit, you're expected to turn left to approx'ly 110 degrees, fly for 1 minute, then turn right to intercept the 140 radial inbound. This can't be done. One way to make it work is to fly for only ~ 30 seconds after passing the VOR and having turned onto the 110 degree heading and then turn a little sharper than a stardard rate turn to intercept the 140 degree radial. You must get to within 0.4nm before the timer runs out. I was only able to do this twice but failed for other reasons. Today, I changed the allotted time in the '\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\Lessons\instr.abl' file for this section from 300 to 900. Then, I was able to complete the entire course including using the teardrop entrance into the holding pattern as instructed and get my certificate. All this leads me to believe either the timer was mistakenly set too short or there is a flaw in the program logic. It's quite likely that the 300 units of time could have been meant to make sure we don't take too long before we turn to intercept the inbound radial the first time. Unfortunately, it is all the time we are allotted to perform the entire entrance into the holding pattern.

alchemist81@netscape.net

Valen · Guest

I found this page via Google, having had some 'difficulties' with this checkride myself. After reading all the posts and looking into this myself, I present the Final Analysis of this bug(!) so that it may hopefully help others who come after me and have the same problem.

Now, the previous post points the right way in that one needs to look into the script, but the conclusion wasn't quite correct. The actual issue is thus:

Up until the point where you travel towards PARKK at 2100ft everything is fine. Even as you're told to climb to 3000ft and turn left to 160 all is good.

But..

As you cross 150 degrees, things go terribly wrong. The timer is reset at this point, but there used to be an in-between step in the script which meant for OBS1 to be set to 159 degrees, and it seems the idea was that you fly inbound at 159 towards SEA VOR. Instead, for whatever reason (maybe they felt it better to let the user choose the approach), the script jumps to the next step. This checks whether the To/From Indicator is NOT "To". This would happen as you cross SEA VOR, but instead the OBS is (normally) still set at 339 with the OBS showing "From", and so the script jumps to the even next step which checks whether you are crossing SEA VOR on the 140 radial inbound (flying 320 degrees), for which you now have 5 minutes time (referring to the previous post: those '300' are indeed seconds). Now remember that at this very moment, you are still in a left-turn from PARKK and just crossed a 150 degrees heading, instead of flying over SEA, at which point 5 minutes would be plenty of time for any maneuver to get on the 140 radial. Oops.

Solutions:

Probably the easiest: Set OBS1 to around 160 degrees after you're told to turn left and climb to 3000ft, and before you reach a heading of 150 degrees.

Permanent: Edit "Flight Simulator 9\Lessons\instr\Rating Checkride.abl" (e.g. drag it into Notepad), find the line with "fnSQ_ChangeState(CaseHold1Entry_2);", and make a new line above it saying "VHFNAV1.OBS = 159;" (no quotes). This will set OBS1 to 159 degrees (at the end of the left-turn) as originally intended, and before it checks whether you're flying towards it.

There certainly would be more elegant ways to modify the script, but this solution will work just fine. You'll have 5 minutes after crossing SEA VOR to enter the holding pattern any way you please. Just hold 3000ft and 100 knots. As a final tip, begin your first standard-rate turn as soon as OBS1 switches away from "To" when entering the holding pattern, else you'll get a message very quickly to bank 20 degrees, and can't pass the checkride anymore.

Have Fun!

Skypple · Guest

hi...
I am trying pass this checkride but no sucess in HOLD ... i am getting the 140 radial to VOR and when pass it i turn to right 180 degrees, straight for 1 min then turn again 180 degrees to right to intercept again 140 radial inbound...why this method is wrong ???

tks

	Create an account	Home · Topics · Your Account · Forums · 3D Glasses · Flightsim Downloads