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Fly Away Simulation, Flight Simulator #1: Forums |
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Lionman
Trainee
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Dartmouth, Devon
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 Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| pilotwannabe wrote: |
To be honest, I hope they don't. It will be a waste of resources that will be better spent eleswhere within the sim  |
I guess there are still guys who think Icons are a waste of resources and we should have stayed with DOS but I am certainly not one of them.
IMHO I think totally empty passenger aircraft are about as convincing, realistic and immersive as flying rubber chickens! Surely good Flight Simulators are all about totally immersive REALISM not geekism??? That's the whole POINT of sims isn't it? They are supposed to be "like the real thing" not an empty world of flying model aircraft.
Even though for the first 10 years limited system resources could be blamed it has still already taken 20 years and 10 iterations of Flight Simulator to end the crazyness of a totally empty planet with no people, traffic, birds, or wild life. So please let's not wait another 20 years to have PROPER REALISM with passenger aircraft containing actual PASSENGERS who talk, move about randomly, ask for stewardesses, get served meals, go to the toilets etc. Even climb the steps and enter the plane or deplane through the open doors into the telescopic passenger tunnels. Just think for a moment what a massive difference it would make to how you feel as a virtual pilot, hearing and seeing all those people in the cabin whose "virtual lives" depend on your skills? Any of you who have tried the excellent add-on "FS Passengers" will know what a massive difference even just the sounds of passengers and crew make to the realism and immersion of one's experience. As a frequent flyer myself hearing "<Bing Bong> Cabin Doors to Manual" alone puts me "right there".
Personally I hope that one day one will be able to take a flight AS A PASSENGER in the main cabin instead of only ever in the cockpit. Or fly as a virtual passenger in a friend's virtual airline, or in an airliner piloted by a friend. All these elements are present already in other simulators. Combat flight sims like IL2 FB have co-operative flight crews in bombers where up to 6 gamers can fly in a single aircraft in a variety of roles, FPS infantry sims like COD and RO have animated AI avatars, doors one can open, windows that break and steps one can climb, while train simulators have carriages one can "virtually" sit in, to experience the journey as a "virtual passenger". So why must all flight simulator aircraft in otherwise staggeringly realistic sims, be spookily empty, silent, hollow shells? What's the point of having cockpits so real that they have coffee cups and manuals yet empty cabins with no passengers, no stewards and no co-pilot beside one's own "ampty" seat?????
Think of the extra opportunities for in-flight "adventures"!!! There you are, sitting (virtually) in the passenger cabin amongst the punters, when suddenly over the intercome the chief steward says "Is there anyone onboard with flying expereince?" and you stand up and make your way to the cockpit to "save the day and land the 747" (or whatever!) Or terrorists take over the plane etc etc. What a training aid for air marshalls! Or a jump plane with sky divers who actually parachute out when you give them the go signal! Why not even have friends as virtual skydivers who can skydive and fly their chutes to earth in a co-operative aircraft crew? Endless possibilities.
Doesn't ANYONE see how irrational and illogical empty aircraft have ALWAYS been? Personally I think "shadows on rivets" and "specular shine" are far less rational "wastes of system resources".
After a year's requests in the subsim Forums from simulation gamers (myself included) seeking more realism, in Silent Hunter III they created a 3D virtual crew below decks and on the bridge who speak to you, give up up-date information and respond to you when you issue orders and you can also now move about inside the U-Boat as if you really were onboard. You only have to try that sim to discover that thanks to these changes, it is without doubt the most realistic, immersive (LOL) and convincing naval combat simulator ever created.
Yet there were still gamers in the subsim realm who shook their heads and said "it was a waste of system resources". The kind of sub-combat gamers who were content to sit staring as flat screens of instruments (in SH II and former subsims) and "imagine" the rest. Why not just read a book and imagine everything? DUH Thanks goodness the developers listened to us realism freaks and created the most amazingly real and adrenalating sub sim ever. It's also by far the most challenging as a game. It's time MS FS became a full simulator instead of just an empty shell world. There Microsoft! An outline blueprint for FS XI already which gives you about 4 years to develop it! |
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CrashGordon
Chief Captain
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 4709
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Doesn't ANYONE see how irrational and illogical empty aircraft have ALWAYS been? Personally I think "shadows on rivets" and "specular shine" are far less rational "wastes of system resources". |
Does that mean flying cargo is irrational or illogical. The cargo doesn't scream, or babble meaninglessly while the cabin crew is explaining emergency procedures to a cabin full of people who aren't listening.
I agree with you that resources used to make the exterior model are technically a waste of resources, since a pilot doesn't see the exterior of the plane unless he isnt't flying it. But people do want to see what the plane is doing and take screen shots.
For me, the ultimate experience would be a photorealistic 3-D cockpit where the view changed appropriatelyas I moved my head and where I could actually see out the windshield without the panel taking up over half the screen.
As for passenger sounds, I'll fly cargo.
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CrashGordon
CEO, Omega-Air Virtual airlines |
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Lionman
Trainee
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Dartmouth, Devon
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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ROTFLMAO! No I was joking in a friendly way about my German buddy - nothing irrational about cargo as opposed to passengers when both are virtual anyway! He has a loopy surreal sense of humour and is a very amusing chap and great company that's all.
As for your other observations I love good screenshots - in fact the best I have ever seen are those collected at http://www.screenshotart.com - and I have no real problem with rivets or shine, in fact the realer the better for me, inside or out.
As for the cockpit realism - I have seen a few (made by the better specialist freeware add-on plane designers) that pretty well fulfil your requirements. Personally I too am promarily only interested in photo-realistic virtual cockpits and find the "half panel fixed style" old-fashioned, unrealistic and covering too much of the screen. Have you tried Track IR 4? Using that inside a really top quality virtual cockpit is as near to the real thing as it gets. I would like to see the virtual cockpit become the only type modelled as it creates a "real" 3D interior. |
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CrashGordon
Chief Captain
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 4709
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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No problem. The nice thing about cargo is that it doesn't scream or complain. Doesn't need to be fed and doesn't overburden the lavatories.
Unfortunately, 3-D virtual cockpits are still a long way from photoreal.
Where possible, I use a 2-D panel that places all the major systems in view so I don't have to rely on sub-panels. Maybe not as realistic as a photoreal panel, but it beats having to switch between panels.
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CrashGordon
CEO, Omega-Air Virtual airlines |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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or you can have an option to do it or not like have passengers and not have passengers it would be like fspassenger because you have an option to use passengers and then you have the option not to!!!!!  |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: |
| or you can have an option to do it or not like have passengers and not have passengers it would be like fspassenger because you have an option to use passengers and then you have the option not to!!!!! |
I have tried FSPassengers and it is a really great add-on that vastly enhances the immersion in FS9. Highly recommended. One hopes that MS will buy them out and include an enhanced version of such features in FSX. (FS10) |
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Lionman
Trainee
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Dartmouth, Devon
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: |
| Anonymous wrote: |
| or you can have an option to do it or not like have passengers and not have passengers it would be like fspassenger because you have an option to use passengers and then you have the option not to!!!!! |
I have tried FSPassengers and it is a really great add-on that vastly enhances the immersion in FS9. Highly recommended. One hopes that MS will buy them out and include an enhanced version of such features in FSX. (FS10) |
This was my post but I wasn't logged in. |
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