Approach Guides

glen4cindy · Trainee Joined: Feb 27, 2004 Posts: 36 Location: KSTL

The above post is mine, guess I forgot to login! Sorry!

99jolegg · Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:27 am Post subject:

It sounds as though you have set up the GPS with no problem, but you haven't set up the AP correctly.

1)The GPS/NAV switch must be set to NAV, otherwise the AP won't work.

2) Secondly, make sure you don't engage the APP button too early. Wait until you have the morse code identifier and clearence to land from ATC, (roughly 10nm out).

3) The APP isn't an autoland feature. At around 1000 feet AGL, you need to disengage the autopilot.

I don't think you have the autopilot set up properly, so it isn't capturing the glideslope. Make sure you follow the guides at the top of this post. Let us know how you get on Wink

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glen4cindy · Trainee Joined: Feb 27, 2004 Posts: 36 Location: KSTL

This is really strange.

Right after I posted that question, I went and tried this again. That time, I took off from KCPS and engaged the autopilot, and flew heading 120 for like 5 minutes, then I turned away from downtown St. Louis and flew that for awhile, then, I programmed the GPS to fly to KSTL and right away, I hit the PROC button, selected ILS 30R, put the ILS freq into NAV 1, and as soon as I crossed the Mississippi River, I chose APP on the autopilot, and it took me all the way to the runway threshold. As of right now, I am not using ATC. I am just choosing a nearby airport, taking off from whatever direction I feel like, and then flying far enough away from where I want to go to allow the AP/GPS fly to and enter the approach procedure for me. I know this really isn't the best way to do it, but, I want to get this down first. Also, I have tried using ATC, but, unless I am in an IFR flight plan, ATC tells me things like enter the downwind pattern, resume own navation, etc., so that is why I have left them out of these things! Smile

I tried to repeat this 3 more times for 3 different runways, 12L, 30L, and 24. All three times, the airplane flew the entire approach, but, never captured the glideslope as it did for 30R above. It just kept flying above the airport from the last waypoint in the approach procedure and continued right over top of the runway! Why it took me all the way to the runway threshold the first time, I am not sure. It seemed to fly down to the ground perfectly according to the VASI.

I was flying the Beechcraft Baron 58 for these attempts, BTW. Thanks again for the help, I am going to try this again!

Guest · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:01 am Post subject:

99jolegg · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:

I am referring to the NAV/GPS toggle switch. It just toggles between the two. This has to be on NAV before you engage the APP button. Make sure you have the identifier and that on the GPS, you are around 10nm away. Switching to NAV, should show you the glideslope on the HSI, so you know you have caught it. Then engage the APP button. That should work fine. I think the problem your having is 1) You don't have it on NAV before you engage APP and 2) You are engaging APP too early.

Let us know how you get on Wink

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99jolegg · Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:29 am Post subject:

Sorry, one more thing. It could be that you are going too fast (probably unlikely in a Baron) or it could be that you are not on the glideslope first. You should try and centre both axis' before you engage APP. This is because, the AP doesn't do a good job when it comes to flying you towards the glideslopel; it tends to overcompensate a lot. Once you are 10nm out, centered on both axis', have all the NAV correctly set up, have NAV/GPS on NAV and then engaged the APP, there is no reason why it shouldn't work.

Hope it all works Wink

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Don Wood · Guest

Glen4cindy wrote: "I have tried using ATC, but, unless I am in an IFR flight plan, ATC tells me things like enter the downwind pattern, resume own navation, etc..."

That is how it works in the real world also. The only times ATC gives VFR pilots precise instructions about turns are:

1. On departure, long enough to get clear of the immediate airspace around the airport and then usually only in general terms.
2. On arrival when it is necessary to vector you to fit into traffic flow. Even on arrival, it is usually a general instruction like "Enter left downwind for Rwy 23". ATC will also provide vectors to set up for the final approach course when requested by the pilot, workload permitting.
3. For traffic conflict avoidance. Sometimes such instructions will be a vector but usually they are a general instruction for a turn, climb, or descent.

One of the drawbacks in FS9 is the inability of the "pilot" to communicate with ATC in other than programmed ways so the ability to request vectors and so forth does not exist in this sim world.

Guest · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:49 am Post subject:

Yeah..One thing that will revolutionize MSFS in the rather distant future is when you can have realistic artificial voices, so you don't have to record hours of playback, allowing for hundreds of more ATC interactions, since you won't have to spend precious time and money recording the voices.

Corgi · Guest

May I congratulate 99jolegg for the time and effort he put into his approach guide. I'ts great to have people like him around.

Well done 99jolegg. Very Happy

Guest · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:48 am Post subject:

Thanks for the guide, was very helpful. My question is......

1) on the 747 i think ive got most of it right. But where ive circled with a yellow box, if i read correctly in the first post, you are supposed to enter the heading of the ILS somewhere, so the purple lines will show going straight up, not angled as i have there?

2) Also the 2 purple dots that are on the outside of the center line, right now theyre lined up so they sit directly in the middle of the 4 white dots. Do they ever move to the side, so they dont sit directly in the middle of the 4 white dots, and if so why?

3) After ive caught the heading properly on autopilot, and your under the glideslope, hitting the Approach button does nothing. Is this normal or do you have to be above the glideslope?

Sorry for the noob questions, im just trying to learn the ILS approach properly, without having to let autopilot take over, or using the red boxes.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:57 am Post subject:

One more question...

4) If i understand correctly ILS glideslopes at different airports work on different angles. Is there a way to find out, say for example at such and such an airport what height i should be 20nm out to intercept the center of the glideslope with ILS, or is there a rule of thumb at what height you should be?

99jolegg · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:17 am Post subject:

Hey,

1) You should change the course number, to that of the runway heading, which means that if you are in line with the runway, the purple lines will face straight ahead. The heading of the runway can be found on the FS Map.

2) If you have the course set to the runway heading, then those two purple areas at the end of the middle line, will face forward and never move. This is just to show you when the middle line is perfectly centered, because it will line up with the two purple dots above and beneath the line. Without them, it would be harder to see when you are exactly centered. So, no they never move.

3) You must always be under the glideslope when establishing, as you are doing so at the moment. Make sure you have the course heading entered into the appropriate course section of the AP, make sure you have the NAV/GPS switch to NAV and make sure you aren't going too fast, i.e. should be around 170-180 at that stage.

4) I'm pretty sure that you can't find out your exact height at a certain distance easily. But, as a rule of thumb, most ILS glideslopes are at a 3 degree angle (I think) so if thats any use.... However, some airports such as EGLC (London City Airport) have a lot higher glideslope angles because you have to avoid big buildings such as Canary Wharf

Hope that helps Wink

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Guest · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:46 am Post subject:

Cheers that helps.

99jolegg · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject:

Well it depends what aircraft you are flying and what panel you are using. In the default 747 panel, you should be able to change it on the Autopilot panel. There should be a selector with a 3 digit number in, with CRS or Course written next to it. You can change that to the runway heading. If not, it could be that you have to change it on the HSI, (the thing in your picture). In the top right hand corner of you little display, is says CRS 340. Hover your cursor over it and see if you can change it that way. Its set at default north, but should be runway heading.

Hope it goes well Wink

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YellowC4S · Trainee Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 18

Thank You Jon!

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